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Seriously?
October 2nd, 2008It’s 6:30am in Kathmandu, and one of the first emails I got this am is below. Normally I just delete stuff like this and assume the writer just had a bad day. But as it raises some interesting issues, I thought I’d post it here and let y’all reply to it. If I do it, it comes off as defensive. So, here’s the question – is he right? Is it predatory to make money teaching? He’ll use books, but isn’t that the same thing? He contacted me via the blog so he’s ok with the content, it’s just the price we’re haggling over. Should “pros” bow to this sense of entitlement and just give it all away for nothing? Heck, what if clients felt the same? Should we give our images away for free? And more to the point, do any of you regulars feel that the exorbitant amount I charge for daily access to this blog is unfair? Oops, that last one was almost sarcastic. Seriously, read on and react.
You are a great photographer. I think your images are amazing. It’s cool you have sponsors. However, the more I explore pro photographers and related, the more I dislike pro photographers.
It seems to me that the “pro” photographers are making their $ with Seminars, workshops, and such. They probably spend more time “teaching” than shooting. I think that they are gauging the amatuers who would like some tips. From what I have seen, workshops(not just yours) are ridiculously over priced. How do they sleep at night? Is photography for the uber-rich only?
I will not enroll in any over-priced workshop. My Scottish heritage dis-allows me to spend such money. I will continue shooting on my own or others who enjoy the hobby. I will continue learning through practice, peers(good amateurs since Pro’s charge), and books(better bang for buck).
I wanted to ask you a simple question on travel photography but you might want to charge me $500.
Sorry for the rant, I have grown disgusted of seeing over-priced workshops feeding off the aspiring photographer.
Ok, gloves are off. I’d reply to this myself, but I normally charge $500 for that kind of thing and he’s clearly not going to pay a penny more than nothin’. Just one favour? Don’t make it personal. I’m sure the guy’s nice enough, just grumpy. If you want me I’ll be selling my kidney to feed my family. (Seriously, I’m posting this because it’s central to issues of how we do, and don’t, make our money as photographers. If I wanted it to be personal, I’d have included his name, but that’s not the kind of person I am. Of course, I’m astonished at the charges being levelled against me, but I’m a big boy.)
Nice. Seems like there has been a growth of these ungrateful types of people in photography recently. I don’t think people realize all the costs and time you guys spend setting up and preparing for workshops, marketing them, travelling to do them and so on. I have not done your workshop David, but I am pretty sure that the people who have were more than pleased with what they learned. With all of the information that you provide here everyday for free, it blows my mind when people question your means of putting food on your table.
Oh, I can certainly see why the writer thinks the way he does, however, I also feel it is a misguided thought process.
I have largely taught myself through forums and books and such. Only in the Spring of this year did I manage to pull off a major coup and attend a real live workshop. As far as bang for the buck, there is nothing even close to live, professional instruction.
Is it overpriced? Well, yes I think so, but then again just about everything is. Anything “specialized” is also going to be expensive. Flash bracket, for example is a little piece of metal to many, but a finely honed tool to some.
Gouging? No, I think not. As someone who has designed, and taught courses, I also know that there is a lot behind the scenes that someone has to pay for.
Well, everyone’s entitled to their opinion…
SO HERE COMES MINE!
I think that the “overpriced” workshops he’s talking about are ones I myself have looked into. Despite the difficulty I may have in getting to said workshops (I’m still a minor w/out a drivers license, let alone a car), I’ve been intrigued by them. But, the more I looked into them, the more I realized they aren’t for me. I am a hobbyist to say the most, and no I can’t afford to go to any of those conferences, workshops, etc. But, IM NOT A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER! That is who those things are aimed at, most of the time(gotta add that caveat
). Those attending make money off of their photographs, and therefore are willing to, and can pay for such things. It’d be like someone who admires architecture, and in their spare time builds things, complaining because of the high cost of attending Build-o-Con 2008. It’s not designed for the hobbyist. Sure, hobbyists can go, no one will stop them, but it’s gonna cost them the same price of admission as their commercial “peers”.
Now, as for the comment that all these pros are more teachers than photographers, that’s just because all the high profile “pros” are high profile “pros” BECAUSE THEY TEACH. Now, don’t quote me, but who here has heard of Richard Misrach? Anybody…anybody? Well, he creates fantastic fine art photographs, his latest being of people on the beaches of Hawaii. He was featured in the August issue of Smithsonian, and I personally don’t know of any classes he teaches, any money-grubbing schemes he’s been apart of. It’s because he doesn’t teach. But he’s DEFINITELY a pro. He must sell his kidneys too.
Also, I just wanted to point out, you probably would have answered his question, free of charge. I seem to remember hearing you give out information, tips, tricks, opinions, on a regular basis. I know in the few emails I’ve had with you, David, you were extremely prompt and very nice.
Ok, I digress. I just had to step up and throw a few verbal punches of my own. Just standin’ up for all the “pro” photographers who have taken TIME, the most valuable thing of all, out of their lives to share things about the trade(notice that subtle note of BEING PAID for their work thrown inn there
) they themselves are so passionate about through blogs, seminars, workshops, conferences, and the old-fashioned email.
Here’s to you!
-Zach LeBar – *humble admirer of the art that is photography*
Some seminars are a little pricey. Especially for those of us who aspire to be great photographers, but spent every last penny we had to finally be free of that CoolPix… Attending a seminar with a respected professional in any field is generally not cheap. Maybe because it weeds out the people that aren’t serious, or perhaps they keep them just expensive enough that they don’t become SO popular that there is no longer time to do what they love.
There are plenty of places to learn photography. Some people spend $60k to go to college for photography, and can’t compose a shot to save their life. Some read a book here and there, subscribe to a photography magazine, read blogs, watch video podcasts, study the photographs of the pros, and find other ways to develop their artform. If you can’t afford seminars, or have some cultural objection to the cost of a given seminar, then you are going to have to just suck it up, and find other ways to learn.
I also want to point out that David duChemin, Scott Kelby, Dave Cross, and the like, don’t drive around in Bentleys wearing Armani suits. They’re just making a living by offering to share their knowledge and skills.
someone is terribly misguided unfortunately. ……here’s hoping that i’m not charged the penny to have this listed as even a comment.!
David,
I’m a commercial and editorial shooter in Calgary and I’ve been lurking at your blog for a while now, nice work, great reads, keep it up, very inspiring stuff.
As for the email, wow! I personally think it takes a lot of nerve for someone to write this and if it were me, I would have had no trouble deleting it without a second thought. It’s rude, presumptuous and inappropriate.
If you are like me, you’re running a business, one that has overhead and expenses that must be covered each month and you should not be at all ashamed or embarrassed to charge whatever you feel is necessary to make it worthwhile. I’d love to have a Ferrari and, even though they may be ridiculously overpriced, I’m certain Ferrari could care less what I think.
I’ve taught my own workshops over the years and, as you know, they’re a ton of work and pressure. Most people don’t appreciate the time spent organizing, researching, planning etc. that goes into doing a workshop. Time that, when all is said and done, amounts to less net income than an equivalent amount of time spent shooting a standard travel feature.
Further, workshops for many shooters are part of a larger income puzzle. If your work is good enough to command attention in the community then, you should be able to charge accordingly. I’d also suggest that if you have no trouble filling a workshop, you could in fact charge more.
It’s unfortunate that this individual can’t afford the fees you command but, that’s not your cross to bear. It’s unfortunate that I can’t afford a Ferrari but, I also recognize that it’s not their responsibility to make one I can afford. Maybe that’s why they’re so successful.
Cheers,
He clearly hasn’t spent much time around here.
If he had, he’d have some sense of the scope of your work & your generosity. As someone who’s had an amazing time attending your one-day workshop, I can say that there wasn’t a person in the room who didn’t agree that it was worth every penny and then some.
Press on, dude.
I think the answer’s pretty simple… In free market economies, it’s a simple case of supply and demand. If people are willing to pay for the service, what is there to debate? This is the way capitalism works.
Why would anyone think charging for instruction is “predatory”? Any educational system is paid for one way or another: public schools thru taxes, private schools thru tuition.
I can somewhat understand where the disgruntled attitude comes from. Photography is a hard business to get into and a lot of photographers guard their technique better than China guards its human rights “issues.” What I understand is that as a beginning photographer, finding the right people to talk to and get advice from in an interactive way can sometimes be extremely difficult, especially when just starting out.
For me, learning the technical aspects of photography was not all that difficult. Finding a mentor, was VERY difficult and took more time than I felt appropriate. Part of it was my fault for not reaching out and part of it was that I was not really ready.
I’ve remedied the above problems by connecting with a college PJ instructor and through him found a photojournalist willing to take me under her wing. Fast forward a few months and I go to a visual journalism workshop for two days where I got a portfolio review by a pulitzer prize winning photographer. The conference cost $150 for the weekend, well worth my money. Last weekend I went to another conference held by the NPPA, they also were very giving and cost about the same.
The point I’m trying to make here is that new photographers often have a hard time figuring out who to reach out to for help. The internet basically makes everyone “available” but its hard to determine what the relative cost will be between the different resource.
All that being said, I’m a believer in a free-market economy and if people are willing to pay the prices for your workshops, more power to you. I’ve thought about taking your workshop in the past, but in the end realized that journalism is the track I want to take and telling stories with photos is a primary goal for me.
Thanks for giving us the opportunity to comment.
WOW some 1 was hopped up on Scottish Fire Water. My friend you have to get more internet savvy. Go to youtube & type photography or photoshop & Bam! there you go free stuff. & go and sit down at a barns & noble with a cup of coffee. I’m sorry i have been looking at Davids blog & his photos for a while & your stuff is really great. He is a Pro & needs to pay the bills & the new Canon 5D MkII isn’t gonna just fall out of the sky.
Oh I could really do with an entire forum for this as once I get started with a good rant there’s usually no stopping me lol. I’ll try and keep it brief
As Jim has posted earlier, I too can certainly see where the guy(?) is coming from, but consider it misguided. I’m very protective of my creativity and despise with a passion the idea of anything as structured as teaching. The creativity comes from within me as an expression of me, the things, ideas, concepts, I agree/disagree with rather than someone telling me “this is how to do it. This is right and that is wrong”. Equally, I despise the RPS and other such institutes with their licentiateships and the strings of letters that supposedly define “a photographer”. In short, I can be a highly opinionated miserable git about some things.
As you know though, a few months back I was fortunate enough to attend a one day course I expect was similar to your own, run one to one by a great photographer friend of yours and provided to me free by a UK magazine. What I learnt there was so immensely valuable and profound it took me many weeks to fully appreciate it and I still think over and weigh the words shared even now. You really can’t put a price on that and if i’d paid a thousand pounds i’d still think I got a bargain. Such courses offered by people of a standing akin to your own, are the most wonderful, most incredible way of giving to other photographers.
Sure, they come with a price but everything in life does. The guy who plays his guitar on the street corner does it for free, but if you enjoyed it or it gave you pleasure then you should put some coins or notes in his case. He needs to put food on the table the same as everyone else. You need to be cautious of course and not all the photographers offering these courses will be of a quality equal to your own. But again, that’s life.
What you’ve given for free here (and what others give for free through their blogs) is massive for a beginning photographer such as myself. You’d easily be justified in asking for a subscription (not that I want to give you any ideas lol) but you don’t, you give it because of what’s inside you. That’s the sign of a good person going beyond the call of duty and it should be beyond criticism.
When you take that off the internet and then take the time to put it into a package, with all the myriad difficulties of organisation, the knowledge and experience not just of photography but of local areas, the idea that you might have an idiot to teach for the day who’s going to bore you and frustrate you to tears, etc, etc, etc, then I don’t think it’s in the least bit unreasonable to ask for a bit of help back in putting food on the table.
Ignore the critics. They have no idea and my thanks to you (& others) for all that you give, free or chargeable, knowingly & sometimes unknowingly.
I’ll just quote Dan and say:
“…rude, presumptuous and inappropriate.”
That kind of email doesn’t deserve any more of my creative energy.
Its a fact that quite a few professional photographers are running workshops and classes. In todays economical climate it makes sense to diversify. Of course, not everyone has the requisite skills, knowledge, or personality to deliver a workshop. So the quality of workshops can vary, I know as I have attended quite a few – though none of yours David.
As with every other business – just because the photographer is good at taking images doesn’t mean that they are going to be able to run succesful workshops – if they are poor, then word of mouth, and the power of the internet will soon lead to a lack of bookings and possibly tarnish the good name of the photographer. So there is a risk element involved too.
As an experienced trainer myself (not in the photography world) I know that the fundamental key to success is passion and a belief in what you are training. I have never met you David, but have exchanged the odd email with you, and from what I have seen from your blog I believe you have both of those in abundance.
I also know there is a lot behind the scenes work to setting these things up, and at the end of the day its a business. Photographers, like any other business have to survive, the image stock library has seen huge changes, more and more people have access to cameras and have started to take pieces of the pie that hasn’t got any bigger, so there is more competition out there.
Running workshops makes economical sense – but as I said earlier – to be good at it involves a lot of hard work. And from another angle I think David, that you are probably one of those guys who gets a great deal of satisfaction from being able to pass on your knowledge to others. So go for it!!
David, your work is great, and most of all, you inspire people to do great work. Keep it up!
MP
Well, the pro photographers that teach are much more visible but I don’t think are in the majority.
Price is subjective. It’s definitely overwhelming to see a workshop priced at $15,000 but travel and time isn’t cheap.
Sometimes it can be hard to determine what the workshop will actually be like. Is it training, just following, small or large group etc. These things can be a big commitment.
His comments are understandable but he crossed the line at the end. It’s simple. If you believe it’s overpriced for what you’ll get. Don’t Go!
I’m not sure why the Scottish gentleman is complaining. $15K (USD) is only about 8,000 quid (GBP) and considering the current cost of petrol this seems like a steal to me. But then again, I’m Irish and 8,000 quid is about half as much as I spend on Guinness each year.
(LOL)
I look at books vs. workshops/instruction as tactical vs. strategic. Books will certainly give you immense tactical bang for the buck if you need a reference and a step by step set of instructions or detailed fundamental explanation.
Instruction on the other hand is more strategic. I’m expecting to walk away and have it soak in over time. I took one of Bryan Peterson’s PPSOP’s online courses and was not originally particularly impressed. But I let it go and pondered it and now 10 months later I find myself asking questions as I set up a shot or look at a scene that are directly related to having taken that course. It is turning out to have been a wise investment.
I appreciate the amount of time pro’s put into sharing. There have been tips I picked up on pro photo blogs that have made me a much better photographer. An example, I can’t even remember the pro that suggested starting your flash at -1.7EV for any close range people shots to avoid blowing them out (even with bounce). Wow! For me that proved to be a genius comment that made me think about what I was doing and led me to explore and find that for my gear and style starting at a -1.3 is the best starting place and go I +- from there. Literally this one FREE tip has saved 100’s of photos and just plain old made me so much happier as a photgrapher because I’m better. And this was FREE as in beer and speech. It took the pro probably 2 hours to prepare the blog post, the example pics to go with it, and the opportunity cost of doing something else to prepare. Workshops on the other hand take sometimes hundreds of hours to prepare and so should carry a cost. That cost should vary with the quality.
Looking at your workshops they look pretty fairly priced. $99 for an all day on site with a group. Fair. $500 for portfolio review and 2 hours personal review Q&A – maybe a little tougher to swallow especially since its hard to see outcomes of previous sessions. $500 for a 12 month portfolio review with personal assignments and reviews. That pretty much sounds like a steal. I figure that is $41/hour. Hard to judge the value for sure since we don’t have previous examples so I’ll volunteer to be your first public victim … for a fee (hey everything has a price right ). Excursions to a somewhere like India cost $$. Get over it.
Jeff: I’d like to point out that although I used 15k in my example, Davids Lumen Dei workshop is just over $3000 for 13 days.
Hey David,
I don’t know why he brings up his ‘Scottish heritage’, its not like we get taught that in school in Scotland. We Scots are teased for not spending money but we do spend it on things we consider valuable. Instruction from someone more experienced is very valuable, so I don’t know what his problem is.
Daniel, Vancouver
Every market has its own commodity and premium items. And depending on what you would like to achieve in your photography, may determine whether you would like to pay for one or the other. You wouldn’t go to Walmart for high end, exclusive fashion, and you would never expect to find cheap bargains at Tiffany’s. Same in training, many classes offered are more of the commodity type, and just like Walmart, have their place. But David, your work speaks for itself, and I don’t think it points toward a Walmart styled commodity. Keep up the good work! Love the blog.
“Over-priced” seems to mean “more than I’m willing to pay” and that’s OK. But that doesn’t mean 1) that professionals in any field are gouging or overcharging and 2) people who don’t gouge or overcharge are credible. The irony is that David provides a forum for people who are willing to pay nothing for his experience to complain about the perceived “gouging” when David offers services at prices that allow him to offer the free service–this blog! (and allow him to pay his bills). Besides, how does this individual know which workshops are overpriced? I’m a professional in everything I do and I charge a fair price. I know the prices I charge are fair because my customers continue to engage my services; they feel they receive at least adequate value for the price. David’s credible as a photographer, so I’d expect that he has a lot of useful information to share in a workshop. And, yes, some of the uber rich can afford things the rest of us can’t. That’s life. If you want more, earn more, but don’t complain about the price.
Professional photographer Jay Maisel has been a freelance photographer in NYC since 1954. His work is highly acclaimed and he’s regarded as one of the best photographers in the world.
Recenlty Maisel said that he doesn’t know why any student would ever want to become a professional photographer these days because it costs a lot of money and there are very few people that make a good living at it.
There are only handful of people like Jeff Wall, Charlie Waite, Art Wolfe etc. that make real money from their photos. And even then, a majority of well-known and published photographers hold workshops that costs thousands of dollars.
Photography is an expensive hobby and profession that is out of the reach of many but it doesn’t mean you can’t learn from books, magazines, or fabulous photoblogs like Pixelated Image that are chuck full of tips and advice. There are also plenty of smaller and inexpensive workshops that are local and cost $100 for a day.
I think that the Scottish bloke’s email was great. It gave David something to write about and it has generated a lot of discussion here.
Hi David, I am blown away. Does he go to work every day for free? I think not. Of course the courses are expensive, have you seen the work the guys at DLWS put into organising their courses? It’s tremendous. On top of that, they’re providing us all with information that could put them out of a job if the students get good enough. I think they’re doing a service to the community by taking the time to do these courses, and good on them if they make decent money for it, but how can we assume they do?
Who knows what costs go into creating and organising one of their courses.
To say that they spend no time taking photographs is absurd. Has he seen the results of your recent trip? Did he see Joe McNally’s latest cover of National Geographic?
On top of that, how many things do they give away for free every day in their blogs? How many of us have downloaded Matt’s free Lightroom presets for Lightroom Killer Tips?
I would love love love to go to one of their workshops one day, and all I hear about workshops is that you’ll learn more in that short time than you could possibly imagine.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences with us every day David, it’s appreciated.
“Mr. Misguided” here.
Firstly, I did not intend to personally attack David. I apologize for that. He is merely an innocent target in the photography business. Kind of “guilt by association” thing. I felt a need to rant though.
Secondly, I was shocked to see my email posted. However, I am thankful for the discussion it has brought up.
Anyways, I have really enjoyed reading all of the comments. Perhaps, I am “Misguided” and that such Seminars are not for me, at least not yet. Realistically, I should NOT spend all of my hard earned cash on a hobby. After all, that’s what it is for me… a hobby. However, I have aspirations of being a Pro one day(in my retirement years perhaps) but I am sure the odds are against me.
It would be financially foolish for me to spend lots of cash on something that I get zero financial return on the investment. It’s not like I could write-off the expense either. For instance, I know some people spend all their money on golf to the point of financial ruin yet never become pro.
Honestly though, sometimes I see a price for a workshop, seminar, ect… I “GASP”. After catching my breath, then my heart sinks to the realization that kind of money should not be spent on a “hobby”. Right now and the fore-see-able future, I think for me a $1000 would be best spent on a new lens to experiment with.
Anyways, from my observation I am guessing that the photographic educators industry is training more aspiring amateurs than pro’s? Am I wrong? After all, more cameras are sold to Amateurs than Pro’s right?
This discussion does pose new questions for me:
1. What percentage or dollar value does a pro spend on his equipment each year.
2. What does the Pro spend on education each year?
3. Who enrolls in Workshops more so? Pro’s or Amateurs?
4. Since the photography industry is so competitive, why would the Pro’s teach their tricks to their competition?
5. Are there examples of aspiring Amateurs who have never sold anything before. Then they take a workshop and get their investment back through sales?
Sincerely,
Mr. Misguided
David,
At various times, probably early without benefit of coffee, I’ve felt the same. But . . .
With the amount of dough I “justify” spending on photo-equipment, as an enthusiastic amateur, most workshops are right in line with everything else. I mean, $100 for a tinted piece of glass?!? But man, it sure makes a difference. Same with the right workshop.
I think there are two types of workshops. Local ones held by local photographers that are fairly affordable ($250 – 400). These are great at an early stage in your development as a photographer, and a good opportunity to meet local shooters as well.
Then there are “the” workshops, usually held by full-time pros in the $1000+ range. I think, usually, these are more appropriate for shooters hitting the wall of creativity and imagination. They’ve got the mechanics down, they’ve got good composition down, now they need the help developing their vision or focusing their interests. (If you could actually do all that in a workshop it would be worth a lot more).
The guy has a right to his opinion, but perhaps could have voiced it differently. I think we’ve all been frustrated with the prices need to pursue our passion, thank goodness its our passion (or what a waste)
Cheers,
Alex
P.S. Chris, thanks for owning up to the email. Takes some bravery to wade into a fracas like this. Good show.
Chris – I prefer to keep these things from getting personal. I know most people have written things in a bad mood, or even in a fine mood and just haven’t expressed themselves well. Like I said, I’m sure you’re a nice guy and I’d be happy to buy you a beer sometime. We all have our days, we have our moods, and we have our opinions.
I think the dialogue your discussion raises is important and I’m grateful for it. I’m also a long way from home and unable to moderate this discussion or really even give it the attention it deserves, so perhaps others will weigh in on your questions, or if I remember, I’ll look in on them when I am back home at end of October.
But let me say this, this community is too important to me to let things like this stand in the way of friendships, and whether I agree with you or not, as long as we’re all civil and kind about it, you are welcome here.
As Alex said, it takes a brave man to own up to starting a fracas like this, and that gets points in my book. Thank you.
Chris,
I’ve been personally spending the $1000’s (oh, ouch) on lenses. I’ve also started shooting everyday even if I don’t feel like it. I think this is helping at my current skill level.
Having just gone on a Photowalk in Denver I can certainly see the benefit of working with pros and, frankly, other photographers to bounce ideas and see things in a new light.
Depends on where you are, what your financial resources are, etc. I’m planning on small workshops in the new year as I’m getting to know the local pros or advanced amatuers a bit better lately.
The Jay Maisel workshop looks great, but $3000 is steep and with my skills I might be out of my depth to gain the most.
Good questions.
[...] checking out the blogs and one of the ones that stood out the most to me was David Duchemin at the Pixelated Image. Over the weekend, someone posted an email questioning “Professionals” and their [...]
A different perspective, though the same issue. I am not a professional photographer, though I dabble in digital photography for my business(es) at times. I am, however, a professional graphic designer and illustrator. I have been in my business since the late 1960s, and used to produce everything traditionally (by hand) for about 20 years. Prior to that I had an extensive education in the graphic arts, as well as on-the-job training, and exposure to the best of the best. After those 20 years, of getting paid reasonably for my services and talents, the computer was introduced into my field. I obviously had to re-train myself with extensive time and effort to make the transition, invest huge amounts of money for equipment, and constantly keep learning to stay current and offer viable, timely solutions for both print and web – or, go out of business. The constant learning and expense continues. All of that is understandable, though difficult. I’m just providing a history, as I’m sure it relates to many professional photographers.
After a small handful of years, upon the influx of computers, everything changed. All of the amateurs had the misconception that, because they bought a computer – they became a designer or illustrator. Or, because they bought a camera, they became a “photographer”. It’s comparable to saying that “because you bought a stethoscope, you automatically became a doctor”. Ludicrous.
To make matters worse, many art schools and colleges began to focus on training students on the computer, rather than focusing on teaching them fundamentals. In a sense, they taught and focused on what the computer could do, easily, rather than focusing on design principles and viable solutions. It’s the reason that my business is flooded with cheap, below par, and in most cases, unacceptable artwork and design solutions. The clients support it, because the bean-counters look at the bottom line – and, many end clients don’t know the difference (or don’t care). This mentality and overall concept has totally devastated the pricing structure of my business, and many others. Instead of professionals being compensated for their talents, efforts, years of experience, and the end result of what they produce – they are forced into competing with amateurs who are giving away poor solutions for the price of a bag of groceries. Ludicrous.
Relatedly, I taught for about 10 years, in a noted art college. I didn’t do it for the money, and quite frankly didn’t get paid enough. I did it at the time, to give something back (for all the instruction that I had over the years). I suspect that most professionals that teach do it for the same reasons. And, many go beyond that, by providing FREE online tutorials.
In summary, and this is directed to the person that began this post. Perhaps your intent was to rattle cages. You accomplished that. You certainly rattled mine. My sincere advice to you is this (and I mean it sincerely). If you are an amateur photographer, or it’s a hobby – be grateful for all the free information and tutorials that are available to you from the “pros” (they really don’t have to post anything – or, share it with you). If you think the costs of attending classes or attending a seminar from a pro are unreasonable, “don’t attend”. The choice is yours. If you have any intentions of becoming a professional photographer (or, any true professional in related fields), then you have a lot to learn. If that is your true intention, then please spend your time, efforts, talents, money and more – and then you might have a glimmer of what it takes to be a “pro”. And, maybe you’ll even experience or get to read comments like yours.
So, based on this, I should go and tell an educational institute that the thousands they charge for teaching is unreasonable? Brilliant!
I’ve never hesitated to share information (or what little experience I have) with others for free; but at the same time I have conducted workshops where participants were charged. It’s a service just like any other with overheads, expenses, time and experience of the instructor, etc. I am amazed at how many people are clueless about so many things; including basic economics. As Mike said above, if you think the cost of a workshop/seminar is unjustified, don’t attend!
Keep up the good work David, cheers!
Has he priced what it would cost for a college course$$$$$
long time reader, and i really enjoy this blog. good work! i think it wouldn’t hurt to once in awhile have a give away workshop for “students” or people who want to learn for free. it doesn’t have to be an all out extravaganza with 4 days of shooting and 5 star hotels. maybe just a day at the beach with a group of 4 people? learn some new techniques. and this doesn’t have to be every week. maybe once a season or semi-annually. that’s just my opinion.
Good discussion and I imagine that’s the point, no? I work for an NGO and have been based in PNG-West Papua for 10 years doing rural development work. We do a lot of participatory photography projects with rural communities, but my photo work only goes as far as my personal pleasure, my visual anthropology program and back to the people I photograph (I must get one of those PoGo printers).
My first reaction to the letter sent by Chris was right on! I think a lot of those workshops are a joke to be honest – they are a part of the new way people learn, if you have $$$ you can get what you want and there are people who will offer it. It’s the USA system, anyone can be anything, and there’s a course or workshop that peddles to the gullible. I think it’s fine though, I’m sure there are all sorts of workshops out there (and I’m sure David’s is excellent judging from his work), and I’m sure people see benefits. I just wish there was more opportunity for developing world aspiring photographers to participate and learn with the pros. These photographers and workshops come to exotic places and leave little behind – there’s something so mercenary about it. Well, we all hear how competitive professional photography is, so maybe that’s why so many are mercenary about it, the dog eat dog world and all that. No matter how much “good” the pros profess to be doing, no matter how many photos they take for UN or CARE, this mercenary / competitive side exists and I believe it rubs amateurs the wrong way. Hey, maybe we are all jealous!
Don’t get me started on how the pro’s mythologize people in this region!
Thanks for the blog Dave, always a weekly read for me when the power/internet is working.
catch.
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